Questions by Andrew Fisher and Damian Manning
Q: Tell me about yourself
A: I’ve been a fan of Commodore 64 music since I was 12, and now I’m its protector and promoter. It’s weird getting to 48 and having the job the 15-year old version of you lusted after but had no idea it was a job! My “day job” has been in programming and databases, running alongside the music activities.
Q: This journey from computer music to concert hall has taken more than twenty years for you personally, how do you feel to have finally achieved it?
A: Pretty great to finally be there after a huge number of false starts, though it’s easier to see the hill ahead than the valley behind: lots of challenges to solve before we get into that concert hall.
Mostly it’s about ensuring the scores are fit for players, that the composers approve, and that everyone gets enough rehearsal. Plus the usual thing of PR, looking after VIPs…
I guess I’m too busy to look back, though everyone attending knows how big a deal this is for SID music, Rob Hubbard, and me, I guess.
Q: When you heard the original compositions by composers such as Rob Hubbard, did you hear it as Chiptune or have you always heard orchestral arrangements in the SID?
A: Depends on the original tune, but I was always sensitive to making the tunes bigger than they sounded: I think I had a receptive brain. Because the original compositions came out as a kind of “proto-music” rather than as a finished product, there was a lot of creative space for listeners to put their own spin on a tune while they were listening. One of the reasons for the compulsion to remix is to make these internal versions of the tunes real.
It’s fair to say that some compositions were obviously written with orchestras in mind, and these are obviously the ones that were the easiest to visualise that way: "Trap", "Kentilla", "Forbidden Forest" and "Flash Gordon" were all written with orchestras in mind.
Q: How does it feel working alongside these composers, having been a fan of their work for so long?
A: I started working with Rob in 1995, and it still seems a little unreal. Having known them for so long, they’re not mythic to me any more, but I try to make their own dreams come true. I think after toiling for so long on great music, who wouldn’t want an orchestral version of it?
Different composers do have different approaches to having their work orchestrated from “Oh, give it here, I’ll do it myself!” to “Just do your best, I’m sure it will be better than anything I can do!” but they’ve been supportive whichever side of that line they fell 😊
It’s been great hearing the composers’ versions of their own stuff, too: Rob Hubbard, Mark Cooksey and Paul Norman all contributed orchestrations, or things which became orchestrations. It’s great to be able to give them the ultimate musical gift; a live orchestra of 80 players.
Q: What would you say were the greatest achievements of the original composers, within the limitations of the hardware they were working with?
A: If music buries into the brain and sticks around then it’s a big success. And even the music giving the correct emotional feels for the player on these early games is a success too. Their adventures with melody and composition were great. Their tricks to work around the limitations created art.
Q: Did you ever play (and enjoy) the games, or was the music always more important to you?
I loved the games, but most of them haven’t aged that well. Or maybe I haven’t aged well. Probably the latter! But I would spend much time in front of title screens.
Then again, I was also a fan of Infocom text adventures, and they didn’t have a soundtrack at all!
Q: The Back In Time Live events you arranged have presented many different takes on performing the music live. Which have been your favourite acts and interpretations so far?
They were all brilliant acts.
SID80s always managed to channel their chaos at the last minute and present a barnstorming set, usually based around Ben Daglish’s versatility and stage presence, and Mark Knight’s ebullient violin playing, but with bedrock support from the band.
PRESS PLAY ON TAPE were always beautifully prepared and sounded great (and they always had nerd cred and humour).
Later additions such as FastLoaders added even more extreme technical ability, in this case, their guitar player Jarle H. Olsen, an amazing axeman who learned guitar specifically to play tunes from “The Last Ninja” game! The composers were amazed that this guy could perform stuff that was never meant to be played by a human.
Q: Composers often left notes to conductors in their scores, could you tell us about any notes you’ve given Robin Tait on how the pieces should be performed?
Because we had to create mock-ups of these tunes to give to the people who funded the scores, the mock-ups are a big serving suggestion! I’m sure Robin will do a great interpretation that will honour and improve upon the work of the creative team so far. And Rob Hubbard will be there on hand to help every step of the way!
Q: Listening to these orchestrations as they have evolved, what are the biggest memories and images they evoke in you?
Hearing a big orchestral crescendo work for the first time is a pretty special moment.
When I'm doing my own arrangements (my stuff is about 50% of the concert), I have to have some kind of mental image in mind to justify what story I'm telling through the music. Some of these memories and images are from the 1980s me, some from the much older contemporary me.
I get goosebumps listening to this stuff all the time. Recently I implemented the "Virharmonic Bohemian Violin" into a couple of pieces doing solo violin stuff. It's amazing.
Q: What will be unique about 8-Bit Symphony compared to previous VGM concerts?
I admire anyone who can put together a VGM concert! They're all amazing!
But, firstly, this was put together on a shoestring. There’s been no corporate budget whatsoever (Hull College has now helped with that!!): it’s been entirely a joint project between fans and composers driven by my mission: I thought it was unfair we were being overlooked. Also, I wanted to prove it was music! Also, the main arranger (me) has no musical qualifications whatsoever. I basically taught myself to do orchestral stuff in order to arrange C64 stuff.
The other unique thing is we’ve had 20 years to think about it, and four years actively doing it. Your normal VGM concert is scored fairly quickly within a few weeks by skilled professionals. And that’s what you get: skilled, professional, contemporary work. If you’re lucky, you get love too, though the audience always supplies an awful lot of love anyway!
Everything in this concert is a labour of love, and it's very unusual for many of the orchestrations to come from their composers (obvious exception: Tomb Raider suite!). But it was a rule for me that no matter how fond of my own interpretation I was, the composers' vision would take priority: for instance Rob transformed three of my own interpretations, and I have to say he did a fantastic job. It's quite right that he has the final say on the ultimate orchestral version of his work.
The orchestrations are all labours of love. They’ve had an insane amount of time put into them by everyone who's worked on them. There was an understanding that this needed to be done, and we’d all knuckle down and do it to our own highest standards. Without that mega-teamwork, the creative hill would have been insurmountable.
The tunes are also eclectic: there’s everything from “Should have been in Home Alone” William Wobbler to “Space Battle with added Funeral” Trap, to “19th Century Romantic Overture” Monty on the Run High Score, to "That's not Star Wars is it?" Mission Fred. Making the pieces sound like "something" is quite unique: and it has the added bonus of importing an extra layer of nostalgia.
Q: What were the biggest issues in making the concert happen and how did you overcome them?
There were two big hurdles once the orchestrations reached the point where they could impress an orchestra. Money, and music prep skills. Hull College solved the money problem by sponsoring the concert up-front as part of their community outreach and PR. The management of the college are big fans of Rob Hubbard, who is a Hull native, and Hull Philharmonic are raring to go.
The music prep problem was greatly helped by an amazingly talented student in the Netherlands called Alisdair J. Pickering, and we were also grateful for the generosity and adventurousness of the conductor Robin Tait, who really got the vibe quite early and was willing to give us a chance. At the time, many of the scores that were only partly finished and not at all musically prepared. And of course the enthusiasm and willingness to help of the mighty Rob Hubbard has been vital.
Other stations passed through in making the concert happen include Jeroen Tel, Guy Mille, Sound of Games, The Thionville Orchestra, various other French orchestras, the LSO, the Barbican, Kickstarter, Toni Galvez, Slaygon, Anna Black, Damian Manning, Steve Green, Trevor Storey and so many other generous people who helped it along.
And now we're in Hull, where we can plant our base flag, and say "we're here!".
Q: Do you see the concert as part of the efforts to preserve videogame history, and how important is it to make new memories?
Once upon a time these tunes were the best video game music in the world. (some more hardened fans would argue they still are). That knowledge has been lost in the welter of attention around IP from Nintendo, Sega, Microsoft, Square, and the like. The C64/Spectrum period is a unique little time, especially in British history, but it was steamrollered until all anyone remembers is Manic Miner or Jet Set Willy.
What we’ve been doing since we released our first CDs in 1997/8 has been: “the same, but different”. All the nostalgia of the old tunes, but with continual upping of the creative stakes to provide new events and exciting milestones: more CDs, live events, even an art gallery exhibit.
8-Bit Symphony is the biggest milestone so far. It's a huge validation for the fans who have known all along that the music deserved this honour and could stand up to the best soundtracks if given a chance. There will be weeping.
And it is historical. We’re creating a book of the scores in the concert. When we lose the ability to run Commodore 64s in emulation and the digital music is lost, a good score book will still be there: a small reminder of the resiliency of classical music.
Q: What’s the next project, or are you taking a holiday?
More of the same: the 8-Bit Symphony concert is a showcase of this music, and only contains half of the scores we’ve done so far. I hope it can be performed again and again worldwide, and with bigger orchestras. LSO/Barbican, here we come!
Cross fingers, there might also be a 16-Bit Symphony, or studio-recorded CDs with live orchestra. You never know!
Q: Tell me about yourself
A: I’ve been a fan of Commodore 64 music since I was 12, and now I’m its protector and promoter. It’s weird getting to 48 and having the job the 15-year old version of you lusted after but had no idea it was a job! My “day job” has been in programming and databases, running alongside the music activities.
Q: This journey from computer music to concert hall has taken more than twenty years for you personally, how do you feel to have finally achieved it?
A: Pretty great to finally be there after a huge number of false starts, though it’s easier to see the hill ahead than the valley behind: lots of challenges to solve before we get into that concert hall.
Mostly it’s about ensuring the scores are fit for players, that the composers approve, and that everyone gets enough rehearsal. Plus the usual thing of PR, looking after VIPs…
I guess I’m too busy to look back, though everyone attending knows how big a deal this is for SID music, Rob Hubbard, and me, I guess.
Q: When you heard the original compositions by composers such as Rob Hubbard, did you hear it as Chiptune or have you always heard orchestral arrangements in the SID?
A: Depends on the original tune, but I was always sensitive to making the tunes bigger than they sounded: I think I had a receptive brain. Because the original compositions came out as a kind of “proto-music” rather than as a finished product, there was a lot of creative space for listeners to put their own spin on a tune while they were listening. One of the reasons for the compulsion to remix is to make these internal versions of the tunes real.
It’s fair to say that some compositions were obviously written with orchestras in mind, and these are obviously the ones that were the easiest to visualise that way: "Trap", "Kentilla", "Forbidden Forest" and "Flash Gordon" were all written with orchestras in mind.
Q: How does it feel working alongside these composers, having been a fan of their work for so long?
A: I started working with Rob in 1995, and it still seems a little unreal. Having known them for so long, they’re not mythic to me any more, but I try to make their own dreams come true. I think after toiling for so long on great music, who wouldn’t want an orchestral version of it?
Different composers do have different approaches to having their work orchestrated from “Oh, give it here, I’ll do it myself!” to “Just do your best, I’m sure it will be better than anything I can do!” but they’ve been supportive whichever side of that line they fell 😊
It’s been great hearing the composers’ versions of their own stuff, too: Rob Hubbard, Mark Cooksey and Paul Norman all contributed orchestrations, or things which became orchestrations. It’s great to be able to give them the ultimate musical gift; a live orchestra of 80 players.
Q: What would you say were the greatest achievements of the original composers, within the limitations of the hardware they were working with?
A: If music buries into the brain and sticks around then it’s a big success. And even the music giving the correct emotional feels for the player on these early games is a success too. Their adventures with melody and composition were great. Their tricks to work around the limitations created art.
Q: Did you ever play (and enjoy) the games, or was the music always more important to you?
I loved the games, but most of them haven’t aged that well. Or maybe I haven’t aged well. Probably the latter! But I would spend much time in front of title screens.
Then again, I was also a fan of Infocom text adventures, and they didn’t have a soundtrack at all!
Q: The Back In Time Live events you arranged have presented many different takes on performing the music live. Which have been your favourite acts and interpretations so far?
They were all brilliant acts.
SID80s always managed to channel their chaos at the last minute and present a barnstorming set, usually based around Ben Daglish’s versatility and stage presence, and Mark Knight’s ebullient violin playing, but with bedrock support from the band.
PRESS PLAY ON TAPE were always beautifully prepared and sounded great (and they always had nerd cred and humour).
Later additions such as FastLoaders added even more extreme technical ability, in this case, their guitar player Jarle H. Olsen, an amazing axeman who learned guitar specifically to play tunes from “The Last Ninja” game! The composers were amazed that this guy could perform stuff that was never meant to be played by a human.
Q: Composers often left notes to conductors in their scores, could you tell us about any notes you’ve given Robin Tait on how the pieces should be performed?
Because we had to create mock-ups of these tunes to give to the people who funded the scores, the mock-ups are a big serving suggestion! I’m sure Robin will do a great interpretation that will honour and improve upon the work of the creative team so far. And Rob Hubbard will be there on hand to help every step of the way!
Q: Listening to these orchestrations as they have evolved, what are the biggest memories and images they evoke in you?
Hearing a big orchestral crescendo work for the first time is a pretty special moment.
When I'm doing my own arrangements (my stuff is about 50% of the concert), I have to have some kind of mental image in mind to justify what story I'm telling through the music. Some of these memories and images are from the 1980s me, some from the much older contemporary me.
I get goosebumps listening to this stuff all the time. Recently I implemented the "Virharmonic Bohemian Violin" into a couple of pieces doing solo violin stuff. It's amazing.
Q: What will be unique about 8-Bit Symphony compared to previous VGM concerts?
I admire anyone who can put together a VGM concert! They're all amazing!
But, firstly, this was put together on a shoestring. There’s been no corporate budget whatsoever (Hull College has now helped with that!!): it’s been entirely a joint project between fans and composers driven by my mission: I thought it was unfair we were being overlooked. Also, I wanted to prove it was music! Also, the main arranger (me) has no musical qualifications whatsoever. I basically taught myself to do orchestral stuff in order to arrange C64 stuff.
The other unique thing is we’ve had 20 years to think about it, and four years actively doing it. Your normal VGM concert is scored fairly quickly within a few weeks by skilled professionals. And that’s what you get: skilled, professional, contemporary work. If you’re lucky, you get love too, though the audience always supplies an awful lot of love anyway!
Everything in this concert is a labour of love, and it's very unusual for many of the orchestrations to come from their composers (obvious exception: Tomb Raider suite!). But it was a rule for me that no matter how fond of my own interpretation I was, the composers' vision would take priority: for instance Rob transformed three of my own interpretations, and I have to say he did a fantastic job. It's quite right that he has the final say on the ultimate orchestral version of his work.
The orchestrations are all labours of love. They’ve had an insane amount of time put into them by everyone who's worked on them. There was an understanding that this needed to be done, and we’d all knuckle down and do it to our own highest standards. Without that mega-teamwork, the creative hill would have been insurmountable.
The tunes are also eclectic: there’s everything from “Should have been in Home Alone” William Wobbler to “Space Battle with added Funeral” Trap, to “19th Century Romantic Overture” Monty on the Run High Score, to "That's not Star Wars is it?" Mission Fred. Making the pieces sound like "something" is quite unique: and it has the added bonus of importing an extra layer of nostalgia.
Q: What were the biggest issues in making the concert happen and how did you overcome them?
There were two big hurdles once the orchestrations reached the point where they could impress an orchestra. Money, and music prep skills. Hull College solved the money problem by sponsoring the concert up-front as part of their community outreach and PR. The management of the college are big fans of Rob Hubbard, who is a Hull native, and Hull Philharmonic are raring to go.
The music prep problem was greatly helped by an amazingly talented student in the Netherlands called Alisdair J. Pickering, and we were also grateful for the generosity and adventurousness of the conductor Robin Tait, who really got the vibe quite early and was willing to give us a chance. At the time, many of the scores that were only partly finished and not at all musically prepared. And of course the enthusiasm and willingness to help of the mighty Rob Hubbard has been vital.
Other stations passed through in making the concert happen include Jeroen Tel, Guy Mille, Sound of Games, The Thionville Orchestra, various other French orchestras, the LSO, the Barbican, Kickstarter, Toni Galvez, Slaygon, Anna Black, Damian Manning, Steve Green, Trevor Storey and so many other generous people who helped it along.
And now we're in Hull, where we can plant our base flag, and say "we're here!".
Q: Do you see the concert as part of the efforts to preserve videogame history, and how important is it to make new memories?
Once upon a time these tunes were the best video game music in the world. (some more hardened fans would argue they still are). That knowledge has been lost in the welter of attention around IP from Nintendo, Sega, Microsoft, Square, and the like. The C64/Spectrum period is a unique little time, especially in British history, but it was steamrollered until all anyone remembers is Manic Miner or Jet Set Willy.
What we’ve been doing since we released our first CDs in 1997/8 has been: “the same, but different”. All the nostalgia of the old tunes, but with continual upping of the creative stakes to provide new events and exciting milestones: more CDs, live events, even an art gallery exhibit.
8-Bit Symphony is the biggest milestone so far. It's a huge validation for the fans who have known all along that the music deserved this honour and could stand up to the best soundtracks if given a chance. There will be weeping.
And it is historical. We’re creating a book of the scores in the concert. When we lose the ability to run Commodore 64s in emulation and the digital music is lost, a good score book will still be there: a small reminder of the resiliency of classical music.
Q: What’s the next project, or are you taking a holiday?
More of the same: the 8-Bit Symphony concert is a showcase of this music, and only contains half of the scores we’ve done so far. I hope it can be performed again and again worldwide, and with bigger orchestras. LSO/Barbican, here we come!
Cross fingers, there might also be a 16-Bit Symphony, or studio-recorded CDs with live orchestra. You never know!